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Tue, Jan. 28th, 2031, 07:43 pm
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Thank you for understanding.

Wed, Oct. 10th, 2007 11:39 pm (UTC)
talash

there are plenty of different standards

What people in your responses that do not see the standard colors claim to be seeing cannot be called a standard because they are inconsistent even with their own very selves over time, not to mention with other people-- and a standard that different people do not agree on is an oxymoron. There are plenty of different standards pertaining to color and its representation, such as RGB, HSV and CMYK etc and these are pretty well-defined rigorous mathematical models which can and are used to represent up to and beyond 16 million shades of color, which is about what the human eye can distinguish. As for perception-- well, we have agreed that individual perception of color, as of anything, may vary. Moreover, the colors of each individual rainbow may vary depending on the setting and, like I said, if we wear green glasses, we might as well see the Wizard of Oz pop up, but still.

I'm not trying to argue which standard is better

I am. Because, the Chinese standard set aside, I believe that the standard that we have is better than naming arbitrary colors from the top of the head. I am ready to accept the Chinese or any other standard given that it can be defined with equivalent rigor to what I use. As for naming arbitrary colors from the top of the head in response to the question "what colors are there in a rainbow"-- I perceive it as lack of education. Because, for example, black is, strictly speaking, not a color and particularly in the context of a rainbow it is ridiculous. I am all for pluralism, but that does not mean that some ideas aren't just wrong. I mean, this is equivalent to saying: "some people perceive the world as flat. this has been so since ancient times in many cultures, some of which also maintain that it stands on four elephants on a turtle. we should respect and tolerate this belief and understanding it is very interesting." They are very close to that in the USA (cf: theory of evolution vs intelligent design). So I say-- no, naming a bunch of colors from the top of the head as something representing the rainbow is not equivalent to my standard. It is something usually referred to as "bullshit."

Thu, Oct. 11th, 2007 12:25 am (UTC)
mme_n_b

"What people in your responses that do not see the standard colors claim to be seeing cannot be called a standard because they are inconsistent even with their own very selves over time"
You just made an axiom from a hypothesis. Try to resist the lure.
My guess (based on admittedly insufficient data) that over time the basic make-up of every person's rainbow will be stable with minor changes (e. g. four shades of green rather than five, or slightly different five). This basic make-up is the individual standard, i. e. every person sees a multitude of rainbows, which group themselves into what may be called a platonic idea of this person's rainbow. Individual rainbows, in turn, group themselves into a "group rainbow" (these are the ones which I find particularly interesting). An example of a group rainbow is a national rainbow, we can safely say "the Russian rainbow has seven colors" because on average that's what the Russians see. These, in turn, will group themselves into a true rainbow, and it is possible (but unlikely) that this rainbow will be the Newtonian one.


"There are plenty of different standards pertaining to color and its representation"
I think you may be missing the point. I'm not interested in representing color. That's not what the survey is about. It's about perceiving color.

"we have agreed that individual perception of color, as of anything, may vary. Moreover, the colors of each individual rainbow may vary depending on the setting"
Which kind of ends the argument right there. Here's a game to play: find a large grouping of small multi-colored lights (like a New Year tree). Look at it quickly (no more than 5 seconds) before breakfast. Turn away, and write down on a piece of paper approximately how many lights of each color you saw, or at least the proportions of different colors. Have breakfast. Briefly look at the lights again. Write down the result. Compare. Guess what the result is?


"I'm not trying to argue which standard is better

I am"
Really? With whom?

"As for naming arbitrary colors from the top of the head in response to the question "what colors are there in a rainbow"-- I perceive it as lack of education"
You are wrong. No one is so uneducated that they've never seen a rainbow. Nor (as I mentioned above) is the question "what are the colors of the rainbow", it's carefully framed to be closer to "what colors do you see in the rainbow". See the difference?

" I am all for pluralism, but that does not mean that some ideas aren't just wrong."
It is pointless to say that someone is wrong about their sensory perceptions. Especially if a number of individual somebodies have the same perceptions.

"So I say-- no, naming a bunch of colors from the top of the head as something representing the rainbow is not equivalent to my standard. It is something usually referred to as "bullshit.""
If you want to continue this (or any) conversation with me you will have to do so within my definition of politeness. I, in turn, will attempt to meet yours as soon as you show it to me. This last quoted statement does not fit within my personal definition of politeness. Therefore I will not answer it and, if repeated in this form, will end the conversation.